Five myths about energy-saving lamps

Pretty clear and understandable - thanks! Tomorrow I’m going to buy energy-saving lamps!

Myth 4, the first quarter and not the other, a blink of an eye with a wicked switch, without a signal, for which I don’t know the reason, maybe I’ll go straight ...

With the switch off, check the presence of a phase in the cartridge indicator. If it is there, then call an electrician, so that he changes your phase and zero in the junction box. If it’s hard to get there and you don’t want to do new repairs in the room then, then you need to interchange the zero and phase in the electrical panel. If you do not find the phases on the cartridge, then the switch or the lamp itself may be the cause of the blinking (possibly some striking currents, poor insulation, somewhere breaks through to the body, etc.). Try to connect a resistor in parallel with the cartridge. It is best to pick it up experimentally, somewhere around 500 kOhm. The easiest option is to take and put in an lamp an energy-saving lamp from another manufacturer. Blinking may stop.

It turns out the "ideal" light source? But what about the RADIO INTERFERENCE that this "ideal" device emits into the mains? For electronic ballasts (Electronic ballasts), these lamps are assembled according to primitive circuits and for the most part do not contain noise suppressing devices in the power supply circuit .......

I have been using various types of compact fluorescent lamps for several years and they are quite fine with me.Therefore, I do not understand that hysterical company against the widespread adoption of compact fluorescent lamps, which has been deployed on the same Internet recently. Everyone around is only looking for their flaws. What horrors you don’t have to read about them, and moreover, all this can be found on rather reputable sites. In the article, I just tried to dispel the 5 most common myths. How it happened - you evaluate.

By the way, I never said that compact fluorescent lamps are an ideal source of light, but among the currently available lamps, this is one of the best options. I still really like halogens, but still, to be honest, with all their advantages, halogen lamps are definitely not energy-saving light sources, because by their principle of operation, these are advanced incandescent lamps. Only LED lamps remain. But there are still a lot of questions for them. At the moment, too expensive and not reliable.

As for radio interference from electronic ballasts, most compact fluorescent lamps are equipped with noise suppression devices. I even specifically looked at information on this issue from manufacturers. It is possible that in the absence of radio interference filtering, only cheap lamps suffer. So this is understandable, in order to minimize the price of the lamp you need to save on everything that turns out. Just do not buy unusually cheap lamps. Well, a quality compact fluorescent lamp cannot be cheap! It can’t, and that’s it.

It is important to recall that the lamps use mercury (although a little, but still, it is present there), so they must be disposed of correctly.

I think it’s not necessary to remind about the harm of mercury?

Even ordinary used batteries need to be disposed of, but why doesn’t anyone then shout that batteries should be discarded? I already wrote about the dangers of mercury in energy-saving lamps and the hysteria bloated about it in the comments to the article "The use of energy-saving lamps can lead to disaster.". The danger is clearly exaggerated, although of course energy-saving lamps cannot be thrown into ordinary garbage cans, but they must be taken to specially organized collection points.

The author had to expand the article to 10 myths about energy-saving lamps, since in addition to everything listed in the article, they also write about energy-saving lamps that they hum during work, emit harmful chemical substances, stink, lead to skin cancer and cause epilepsy ( the so-called epileptic disease).

Oleg Semenov, these are just myths about energy-saving lamps and they are spread by people who "somewhere just heard something terrible." By the way, often such things are even told on television, I'm not talking about the Internet. In reality, all of the above you have nothing to do with the operation of energy-saving lamps.

The flickering of lamps in the off state is not a myth, with all due respect to the author. It all depends on the lamp manufacturer. Some lamps do not flicker at all. Some are several times per minute. This is noticeable only at night, because the flash is short and dim. Not only noticed by me. With respect, Roman.

Alas, NOT a myth that energy-saving lamps do not shine well in the cold. With this I hope no one will argue?

Oh, stupid bear argued with the prohibition of conventional lamps> 100 watts

Gray,
And what do you not like about 90-watt incandescent bulbs?

Neon switches do not cause CFL flicker, some lamps do have a time delay until they are completely “flashed”, for example by ecola, which, by the way, also vanishes.

I am very glad that I finally came across information on the flickering of energy-saving lamps.

Many thanks to the author.

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By the way:

1) In my room, the chandelier is connected via a switch with LED backlight, but there the lamp does not flicker

(while one such lamp is standing there, others will be replaced as it burns out).

2) But in the electricity corridor the lamp flickers off, although it is connected to the network through a simple switch

(there is still a regular incandescent lamp).

It will be necessary to try the phase indicator.

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In general, tonight I’ll bribe a couple more electric lamps, and I’ll go in for experiments - in all places where something shines.

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It seems to me that there is another myth:

that, supposedly, the power of the electric power lamps according to the equivalence of light emission should be taken as 1/5 of the power of ordinary incandescent lamps.

That is, for example, instead of a 100-watt incandescent lamp, you need to put a 20-watt electric bulb.

Nifiga like that.

In another apartment, where I began to try to replace the lamps, the 20-watt electric bulb per eye is noticeably weaker than the old 100-watt incandescent lamp - I immediately felt this and my wife said straight away (chief assessor of lighting progress).

Now I buy only 25 watt (to replace 100 wad).

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Who has any opinions on this?

The people - do not drive all crap. Better read the basics of electrical engineering. In electric lamps

there is such a cripple, it is called by electrolyte, which accumulates electricity.

And when at the last the crescent rises to a certain level, then the ballast starts, after which the last very quickly discharges, and we observe a short flash.

Ilya,
more precisely, not byak, but the right thing - an electrolytic capacitor.
It basically eliminates the flicker of the lamp - it smoothes the ripple of the rectified alternating voltage.
ELL flicker is usually caused by a leak in the circuit breaker. It can be either a leak through the indicator (LED, neonka), or through a cockroach between the contacts of the switch;).
Or it can flow through the wiring.
We must look for a leak. Because it is unsafe.

Gosh

Let's not cling to words. Everything else is indisputable.

Talk about something else, how to calculate a real lamp, and not a left-handed manufacturer, in which it loses its luminous flux after 4-6 months.

The article is convincing. But the last photo shows that labeling an energy-saving lamp can be misleading. The lamp indicates the parameters: "20W, 230 / 240V, 175mA." But 175mA * 230V = 40.25W. It turns out that the manufacturer writes only the power of the lighting element, and the electronic ballasts are eating about the same amount?

It is not precisely such energy savers that are needed ..... Everything is true in the article - almost.

Firstly, the Chinese mostly save parts and put lower values ​​for capacitors and transistors - this is less declared luminous flux and shorter operating time.

Secondly, these lamps are already old, you need to switch to LED ones - consumption is even less, there is no mercury at all, the luminous flux is regulated by a conventional dimmer and, if desired, if an RGB lamp, the color tone is easily changed.

Thirdly, LEDs are massively produced by our industry, and all energy savers are imported - you can’t control and change the quality in any way.

Fourth, energy saving is 20-50 times more expensive than ordinary lamps, with all of the above, saving on electricity, but we spend on lamps. The ratio is approximately the same in price, if you do not repair the energy saving itself ....

Thanks for the accessible explanation about energy-saving lamps, I have "3" in electricity since I was young, but I replaced 1 out of 6 lamp in the chandelier and they stopped blinking, it's a pity to change the light switch, thank you very much for your help!

Alexander,
everything is exactly like this:
"... But the last photo shows that the marking of the energy-saving lamp can be misleading. The lamp indicates the parameters:" 20W, 230 / 240V, 175mA. "But 175mA * 230V = 40.25W ..."

only it is necessary to consider according to the laws of physics P = UIcos (FI)

when shifted 90 degrees cos (FI) = 0.5

so we get about 20W active load

and the fact that reactive energy is still running around the wires is a fact to be reckoned with - you need to choose 2 times more wires over the cross section.

Rumen You are wrong, this lamp has a diode bridge and a capacitor, the reactants are nowhere to come from. Reactive power in Soviet throttle ballasts. There is either a mistake or a kit.

In general, I do not see any joy in these savings. I bought only one for 3 and a half cotton wool for fun, I turn on E14 on the Soviet night lamp very rarely, it was acceptable, the color rendition through the plastic plafond is correct. Slampo * 15-wadded incandescent wires have a very light spiral. Only this lamp has smiled so far.

I have my own story. He’s an electronicsman himself, and I know how these lamps work from the very conception, so I buy one by one I evaluate and only then take it. So 4 years ago (the most successful experiment) I bought Philips 65 rubles. It shines in a very good shade like an incandescent lamp and bright. She was standing in the bedroom, shining every day for 2, 3 hours. 2 years without any problems. And I began to buy only such. At the moment, 25 units are working, the one that was bought first, put on the basement and burns daily from 9 am to 11 pm (I go behind the car through the basement, turn it on and off in the evening when I go back). The lamp works for 4 years. The rest are even more so. Found another plus. The base is not heated and the cartridge in the chandelier is not heated, which are mainly Chinese with aluminum contacts fading from incandescent lamps.

Human health also depends on the regular receipt of portions of infrared radiation. It evenly warms up the tissue and penetrates the skin. No wonder the infrared saunas have come into fashion. And energy saving compared to an incandescent lamp almost does not produce radiation in the infrared range. Therefore, if you refuse from incandescent lamps, then the body is forced to spend more life energy on self-heating, wears out faster and grows old.

I add. The natural light flux from the Sun is more than 50% composed of IR radiation. And if we want to get a light source close to the sun, then at the moment there is nothing to replace the incandescent bulb.

The output is 50% of those + 50% of these in a baaalschiy chandelier. Ideal.

Painted beautifully. In fact, this is not so. Light from any energy-saving lamp is deadly pale, even from the so-called "yellow". They always have unpleasant green / purple hues in the spectrum, namely the dead ones. The color rendition is terrible, I don’t recognize colors of usual things, I don’t recognize colors at all. And the light itself is like a dull, the corners remain darkened, not like from incandescent bulbs. The eyes are very annoying, I do not know if it is harmful or useful, but annoying, there is no such thing from incandescent bulbs.

When we had these lamps at home (Philips 2700K), I didn’t want to go home, what kind of uplifting and working capacity there was. Very quickly, they returned to incandescent bulbs, and I will never let this mercury trash into my house anymore.

I also wanted to write about it ...
Do you speak myths? So it is easily verified, no extra words needed.
The gray cloudy light is not yellow at all, but the blue shade from 2700K is so unpleasant that it’s better to sit in the dark and do not turn on the light once again (here's the energy saving% - (). something to do in such lighting is impossible in principle. You lose your eyes.
About the flickering of bulbs - also not a myth. I have a backlit switch, but do not flicker. Friends - flicker. It is what it is.
I’m not going to say that you won’t check on the fly.

To all opponents of ESL:
1.Require lamp check in store. EVERY lamp. Alas, it happens that a good company also has "punctures."
2. Cheap ESL and good ESL are different lamps.
3. Check all switching equipment. The untwisted screw of fastening the wire, poor contact of the lamp with the cartridge, oxidation of the contacts of the switch ("cockroach") :) will reduce all the advantages of ESL to zero.
4. Get rid of the "glowing" habit - "When leaving, turn off the light." ESL do not like frequent on-off.

The one who shot the video was in a gas mask? Mercury vapors are used in lamps, not mercury itself, and it penetrates into the body in the form of vapors (unless, of course, these balls are eaten). So it turns out that breaking a lamp we exceed the maximum permissible norms of mercury vapor by 20 times. Thermometers do not burn out like bulbs and we do not throw them in the trash.

Igor - The one who shot the video was in a gas mask? Mercury vapors are used in lamps, not mercury itself, and it penetrates into the body in the form of vapors (unless, of course, these balls are eaten). So it turns out that breaking a lamp we exceed the maximum permissible norms of mercury vapor by 20 times. Thermometers do not burn out like bulbs and we do not throw them in the trash.

Igor is right: not drops of mercury are dangerous, but its vapors.

Ignorance will destroy us. And then another myth went - about mercury ...

And what can you say about the fact that with our ripples in the networks, the failure of these lamps is not so rare. and the explosion of these capacitors is quite scary, especially for children. This phenomenon is observed not only in cheap manufacturers.

The main myth is that these lamps can completely replace incandescent lamps, and therefore incandescent lamps must be banned. But in fact, in toilets, closets, pantries, basements, sheds and other places of short-term stay CFL to use is not economically profitable.

The second real myth is that these lamps will bring economic benefits to the average citizen. In fact, given the high price of CFLs compared with LN, energy savings will not translate into saving money right away - the benefit is possible only if CFLs really last a sufficient time to pay back their purchase. How many low-grade Chinese CFLs serve, I think it makes no sense to tell. In addition, it should be borne in mind that “inefficient” incandescent lamps are specially designed for a service life of 1000 hours, since this bar was chosen as the best option between energy consumption and operating life: the efficiency of an incandescent lamp is higher, the thinner the filament, i.e. than it warms up faster, but, accordingly, burns out faster.This moment can be used to your advantage: to turn on incandescent lamps not in 220 V, but below, which is sometimes done when such lamps are connected through a diode or a transformer, or several lamps in series. Using a primitive soft-start mechanism also significantly extends the life of an incandescent lamp. As a result, an incandescent lamp, no matter how low its efficiency, may last several years - i.e. several times more than their set 1000 hours. While Chinese CFLs, God forbid, they will serve at least a couple of years (and sometimes only a week). And thus saving money from using CFLs becomes even less obvious.

I did not try to say that CFL is bad. If you get CFLs of German or Japanese production, put a voltage regulator on the light, do not get carried away by turning these lamps on / off often, and also get 4 years of guarantee for them, then there will really be savings. But the only thing is that we will have such lamps and we will see savings - this is really a myth.

I do not know what benefit from such lamps ..... I did not feel any benefit on myself, but more harm.

The first thing I would pay attention to is the Light from the lamp (you get tired many times faster than from the light from an incandescent lamp). After such a light, my eyes hurt terribly. Gentlemen, you should take into account the fact that light is not constant, but pulsating, and this negatively affects vision - impairing it. In short, COMPLETE Bullshit, IT IS BETTER TO BUY A LIGHT BULK, WILL SERVE LONG AND NO harm.

The article has a lot of useful, but also dubious, especially with a description of the problem of flashing lights. It seems that the writer does not understand electrics at all. And it is correctly described in 3 comments, how to eliminate the cause, well, two fourth points, which is also strange such inattention of the writer of the article. And in general, all this raises doubts about the quality of information content in relation to the material presented. But there are also necessary tips.

Anton, thanks for the comment. The article really had two fourth points, and somehow I did not notice this. It is interesting that the article sagged on the site for half a year already and no one paid attention to this before you. Corrected. By the way, the third comment you like so much is also mine. I just registered on the site under the nickname andy78. The commentary supplements the article and contradicts in no way what is stated in it.

It seems strange to me that everywhere they praise energy-saving lamps. I am not scrupulous in money, I bought a lot of such lamps, but never a single lamp has worked longer than the same 1000 hours (and in the long equivalent of time - 1 year), which ordinary lamps work. Therefore, in general, it turns out that Ilyich’s bulbs are economically more profitable. Alas, I like the color of energy-saving lamps, so I have to overpay. But experience says: Ilyich’s bulbs are more profitable in terms of money! And to argue with this is simply useless and stupid.

I eliminated the flickering of the lamp by making drainage from the capacitor.

Yuriy,
There is no real savings from the use of new lamps, there has not been and will not be. Neither for the layman, nor for the state. In such a light it is impossible to read, for ten months of using these lamps I planted my vision, I had to spend money on glasses and everything connected with it, in particular. eye drops. His wife's vision also deteriorated. In the best case, the lamps are suitable for finding something - where is the stove, and where is the TV.
There is no state economy either. Since consumers do not pay to the state, but to companies such as RAO UES. Someone lobbied the interests of resellers, and Medvedev blurted out stupidity out of ignorance. Yes, and obliged everyone to switch to such lighting.Only municipalities - city halls - can save money by using these lamps to illuminate the streets. The rest is nonsense. And with recycling - how? Al wait until the roasted cock pecks ????

by ultraviolet, I say, it is very harmful in the sun in the summer from 12 to 16 hours. not one lamp (with the exception of special ultraviolet) will not give you such dangerous doses of ultraviolet radiation as you get in the summer on the street, but nevertheless the body has a wonderful function of repairing dead and damaged skin tissues. and making tantrums about this is stupid. skin cells, for example, die from shampoos, soaps, alcohol-containing cosmetics, it's just not fatal, why worry about that? excess UV rays can cause skin cancer — this is already a problem. and again, staying in the sunshine increases these risks, it is proven, but the fact that cancer is developed by lamps is not there yet, so it's all nonsense. energy-saving lamps have another very serious problemma-fragility. At a high price, they do not burn for so long that they would pay for themselves — this is one of their most important drawbacks — low profitability.

In fact, many en.saving lamps smell strongly while new. Even in a large room, the smell is very intense and unpleasant.
In fact, if the switch switches the neutral, and not the phase, the lamp will flicker due to the presence of capacitance, both in the lamp itself and in the wiring, as well as the presence of leakage currents.
Nevertheless, it should be noted that for many lamps sold, color rendering suffers from the low cost of the phosphor used.

Andrew! Happy Birthday!

I wish all the best!!!

Maxim, what is the truth?
Then I join in the congratulations! All the best.

Maxim, Alexander, thanks !!!!

And they forgot about the luminosity spectrum.

"What is a saving lamp in optics?"

A range of ordinary incandescent bulbs.

The spectrum is quite smooth, so it emits an ordinary heated body. The maximum radiation falls on the red and near infrared, so for a person it looks slightly yellowish. Its spectrum, in wavelengths, extends from 400 to 1000 nanometers and beyond. Small indoor sun.

The range of energy-saving lamps.

The spectrum also contains the lines of hard ultraviolet - 365 nanometers (a small peak on the left of the graph), then 405 nanometers (the line of the spectrum rises - the phosphor excited by hard rays begins to glow), 434 nanometers is already a high line from which the phosphor glows with a wide blue line of about 480 nanometers . The broad line in the green part of the spectrum (550 nanometers) is the high-intensity mercury vapor line (546 nanometers) and the phosphor line. Further, the red high-intensity line of mercury and the maximum emission of the phosphor.

In the infrared part of the spectrum (more than 700 nanometers), a picket fence made of lines of metals and salts present in the lamp.

Further, as the lamp warms up, the spectrum changes. After 2 minutes of lamp operation, it enters the operating mode and its spectrum becomes different.

High-intensity mercury emission lines increased in the spectrum. The phosphor warmed up and stopped emitting in the infrared. Within two minutes of warming up the lamp, narrow-band lines increased by two to three times. The emission lines of mercury vapor many times exceed the average luminosity level of a given lamp. In the blue part of the spectrum (400 - 470 nanometers), the average luminosity of the phosphor is 80-100 units, and the mercury line of 434 nanometers - 360 units is 4 times brighter. In the middle part of the spectrum, the lines exceed the average level by 10-15 times! This means that our eye sees the average level, and that it receives 10 -15 times more radiation of narrow lines of the spectrum that destroys it does not notice.

Energy-saving lamps also flicker with conventional, without backlight, switches. But, only in those rare cases, if the switch opens the "zero", and not the "phase". Verified by own experience.

And yet, about the durability. My "slow" lamp worked for a little more than three years, almost never turning off. The second has been working for a year and a half in the same mode. And again “slow”, one that does not flare up right away, but in 3-4 seconds due to the presence of a posistor in the circuit. Long do not live "fast" lamps, especially Chinese, and even more so, fakes for brands. This is due to the use of simplified electronic ballasts and low-quality components in them. In this case, as a rule, the electronic ballast itself fails, and the flask after can live for quite some time. It is checked up by experience of repair of these lamps.

Can I use relays with this type of lamp?

1. Mercury is not a myth. And do not compare with thermometers and batteries.

Batteries decompose slowly, poisoning the limited landfill space.

Thermometers fail significantly less often than lamps and last on average much longer. Although mercury thermometers have long been time to ban and switch to electronic Yes, and it is difficult now to find a mercury thermometer on sale.

Mercury from broken electroluminescent lamps intensively evaporates into the atmosphere.

About special collection points for recycling - not funny. They are far from everywhere, and if there are, they work in an uncomfortable mode. That's why batteries with bulbs fly into a regular trash.

So if you broke one such bulb in the apartment - it’s okay. Even the Ministry of Emergencies does not need to be called. But when the mass of such bulbs beats in a landfill - it is already scary.

2. For carcinogens and other harmful emissions of electroluminescent lamps. Heavily dependent on the manufacturer. There are smelly lamps, of which when working, obviously, some muck stands out. There are normal lamps.

And let's send all the lamps that have not paid for themselves to Chubais, let him fail. All advocated for savings, promised domestic developments, banned lamps more than 100 watts to take, did not create anything, only resold Chinese.

Isolation of “something” from such lamps is confirmed by such an observation. In the vestibules of some supermarkets ("Tape", "Magnet" ...) there are round lamps with a matte shade and E / C lamps inside. After several years of operation, dark gray flakes are observed inside the shades, giving a sloppy appearance to the lamp.

With incandescent lamps, this did not happen.

By the way, the common term for such lamps is CFL (compact fluorescent lamp).

The video is about nothing. You can stupidly calculate how many thermometers in each apartment: one or two? How long do they serve: 10-15 years, more? We have thermometers at home that our parents bought 20 years ago. And how many light bulbs in one apartment? I have - 20 pcs. How often do energy-saving light bulbs burn out? Cheap - in a year and a half. Those. in 10 years I will change about 200 light bulbs. And if you multiply all this by the number of people? Not just like that, in all stores that sell energy-saving lamps, they warn that they cannot be disposed of as household waste, but must be brought back to the store together with the packaging so that they can be disposed of there. By this, manufacturers and sellers themselves confirm the danger of energy-saving lamps.

In fact, under the influence of harsh, that is, harmful ultraviolet, oxygen turns into ozone, this is the basis for the principle of the action of bactericidal lamps! Ozone changes the permeability of the cell and it dies.
Housekeepers cannot be a source of ultraviolet radiation harmful to humans.
Silicate glass retains 99% of the radiation.
They put quartz in the greenhouses; it is transparent for ultraviolet radiation.
Read the books at last!
It is not radiation that is harmful, but intensity.
There is no need to overdo it and you will be happy. The eyes will not get tired.
Live and prosper.

By the way, I looked at a dispute at an arc of electric welding through ordinary 3mm glass, I couldn’t do it with my eyes, and without glass I would burn the retina and then lidocoin, etc.
With a source of ultraviolet radiation, like an electric welding arc, we must also look for a competitor! And here it is about lamps based on electronic ballast, the same eggs are only a side view!
Glowed in the basement of DRL-700 for 2 years, so there the grass and flowers began to grow, as in the fields.
Daisies, dandelions, and I trust nature.
If flowers have grown under the lamp, then there is no harm to the person.
Harm from this or that can be found when you want everywhere!
Living is bad! Check the water you drink, be surprised!
And we, this is what we drink and eat, and not what shines on us!

Energy-saving now called fluorescent lamps (twisted spiral). Yes, there are mercury vapor, but the spiral can break! Yes, they sometimes buzz, though not all. Yes, there is a smell and in appearance you can see the fruits of work on the ceramic casing (it burns out trite)))

And I have old daytime lamps! And they hang right in front of my monitor! Kick how tired eyes are from flickering! And also the monitor flickers with the lamps! Oh how!