Categories: Electrician Secrets, Sockets and switches
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Two phases in your 220 volt outlet? This is more real than you think.

 


Two phases in your 220 volt outlet?About a common wiring malfunction when there is a phase in the 220 V sockets on both sockets. About why this is happening and why it is dangerous. First-person and a bit informal.

There is one characteristic malfunction of the wiring, which can confuse a novice or inexperienced electrician. To explain what I’m talking about, I’ll give a story from one of my friends:

“A neighbor comes to me on Saturday - a lonely grandmother. And asks to deal with the electrician in the apartment. Say, nothing works, but the lights did not seem to be turned off.

Well, I, of course, go to the site and check the circuit breakers. Everything is in order, all machines are on. I take the indicator: phase passes by. I go into the apartment to my grandmother, I check the first outlet. The first connector is the “phase”. I check the second connector - also a "phase"! What nonsense!

I turn to another outlet: the same picture. Two phases. Where are the two phases from? Well, suppose, okay, “zero” can disappear. But where can the second phase appear in a 220 volt outlet? Only one phase is brought into the apartment.

I didn’t understand anything, I apologized to the grannies, and she had to wait until Monday to wait for an electrician from the housing office. And what kind of trouble was there, I did not understand. ”

I’ll immediately ask the experts not to laugh at the story of my friend. He is not a stupid person, just not an electrician by profession. And I will shed some light on the dark story that happened to him.

If the hero of the story except indicator screwdriver he had a tester with him, and if he could use it, he would be able to make one interesting observation. There was no voltage between the two “phases” in the outlet. This means that the "phase" was of the same name. It is understandable, otherwise the technology and lamps in the apartment would not have been greeted.

But where did the “phase" get to the conductor, which was previously zero? She just went through the load, that is, for example, through the light of the corridor lamp, which is always on, and ... and that’s it. It turned out that she simply had nowhere to go on. The reason for the whole katavasiya is that the input zero working conductor is cut off. It can simply break off on the zero bus in the shield, for an aluminum wire it is as easy as shelling pears.

When this happens, the current in the circuit, of course, disappears. No current - no voltage drop. Therefore, the “phase" is the same as that at the input, that at the output of the bulb. It turns out a "phase" in both wires. Well, since all the zero wires of the apartment have a direct electrical connection between each other on the same zero tire of the apartment shield, the “lost phase” appears in the outlet too. It was enough to turn off all the switches and disconnect from the sockets all the appliances in the apartment so that the anomaly disappeared.

Well, to correct the situation, it was enough to strip and reconnect the fallen off zero wire, first, of course, turning off the opening bag.

It is worth noting here separately that although the “phase” on the neutral conductor in such situations seems to be illusive and unreal, the danger can be quite real. Even through a load you can be very “pulled” very well, because a person needs only about 7 milliamps for very unpleasant sensations.

Again in order to avoid electric shock in such situations, it is impossible to produce protective grounding housings of electrical appliances directly in the place of their connection, without a separate grounding line and re-grounding. After all, if you neglect this prohibition, then when the neutral wire is broken, you can get the phase directly on the device’s case, even if it’s not quite real.

Read also on this topic: What is zero and phase, how to determine them?

Alexander Molokov

See also at i.electricianexp.com:

  • How to find phase and zero? Several methods for determining phase and zero pr ...
  • Why does the switch open the phase, not the zero?
  • The outlet does not work, what should I do?
  • Broken common zero wire in the access electrical panel: danger of overvoltage ...
  • How to determine the ground wire

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    Comments:

    # 1 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Very relevant article. Very often I encounter false protection when a working zero is used as a protective one. And this is done by electricians by profession. And I want to add that if the "load" is connected to "a lot", then it will share, thereby reducing the resistance. Simply put, not the "imaginary" phase will come, but the real one.

     
    Comments:

    # 2 wrote: elsash | [quote]

     
     

    Clear. Those. input in the shield is single-phase. It is good that there is no break in the common N-wire in a 3-phase system. Granny then turned on, only a TV and 1 LN :), just 380V would have come.

     
    Comments:

    # 3 wrote: Alex 236 | [quote]

     
     

    A common situation. But the other one - once I encountered the presence of two DIFFERENT phases in an ordinary outlet in a residential building. I understand that hardly anyone will believe me, I myself did not immediately believe my eyes, but the fact is clear. The residential 8-apartment building has a voltage of 127 V (three-phase), respectively, for 220 V two phases are required. The situation is completely wild, to some extent it explains that the house belongs to a metallurgical plant, apparently, during the construction they decided to power off some existing building at 127 V. Brothers, don’t “throw stones at me”, I’m taking a long time could not believe it ...

     
    Comments:

    # 4 wrote: Sasha | [quote]

     
     

    Alexei: I believe with pleasure. I work in an organization that serves the electrical equipment of cranes at a local thermal power plant.

    At this thermal power plant some ancient trophy standard of linear voltage is used - 500 volts exactly.

    There are no 380 volt circuits on these cranes at all, and 220 volt receivers are powered by a transformer. It turns out too - in both sockets of the socket "phase".

     
    Comments:

    # 5 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    I quote: "... If you neglect this prohibition, then when the neutral wire is broken, you can get the phase directly on the device’s case, even if it’s not quite real ..."
    An erroneous statement - in this case, the real phase will come, albeit through the load, but enough for a person ...
    Conclusion - put an RCD!

     
    Comments:

    # 6 wrote: Maroussia | [quote]

     
     

    There is such a socket with two phases. Just not in the apartment. You can take one phase from this outlet, and zero from your apartment. Question: will the appliance work normally?

     
    Comments:

    # 7 wrote: andy78 | [quote]

     
     

    Maroussia, why do you need this? A socket with two phases is an emergency in the wiring, therefore, you do not need to invent anything. Look for a good electrician and let him look for and fix the malfunction. Do not meddle yourself.

     
    Comments:

    # 8 wrote: Maroussia | [quote]

     
     

    In this case, the meter will not work. From my take only zero, and the phase is "left", albeit from the emergency.

     
    Comments:

    # 9 wrote: Sergei | [quote]

     
     

    In the Kaliningrad region there are a lot of outlets with two phases ... the German heritage ...

     
    Comments:

    # 10 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    We forgot about another option for burning the indicator screwdriver on both sockets of the socket: when the working zero is cut off and the devices are turned off, an “tip” of about 90 V appears on the neutral wire due to the proximity to the phase board along the entire length of the power board, from which the indicator it glows, although it faded, but the difference in glow is difficult to distinguish in sunlight, so it seems that there are two phases in the outlet! The decision to check the voltage with a bipolar pointer or tester would be correct.

     
    Comments:

    # 11 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    In the village of Tirlyan in Bashkiria, for example, from the tsarist times to this day, the network almost throughout the village without a zero wire. So there are really two phases in the outlets.I don’t know why, maybe there is a network with an isolated neutral, like in mines, or maybe a legacy of a network with a voltage of 127 V, from which zero was simply eliminated when switching to 220 V.

     
    Comments:

    # 12 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    In a working network, two phases can only be if the line is powered by a transformer with a linear voltage of 220v.

     
    Comments:

    # 13 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Quote: Alexander
    In a working network, two phases can only be if the line is powered by a transformer with a linear voltage of 220v.

    I'm in shock! And what kind of transformers do you have such residential high-rise buildings powered with a linear 220V? Enlighten pliz. belay

     
    Comments:

    # 14 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello! I’m not in the subject of course, but maybe someone came across such an apartment, when the ballast is turned off, it works as if nothing had happened, and the rest of the sockets and lighting do not work. Where does the current come from in this outlet? How to find a malfunction?

     
    Comments:

    # 15 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    This dear friend is not a malfunction, this is a freebie, because there the phase goes from the counter, and the second is grounding, the main thing is for electricians not to fall for it, you just turn off zero and voila-freebie on the counter))).

     
    Comments:

    # 16 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    It’s good if it’s of the same name, and if it’s oncoming when the working zero fades away and oncoming goes along it. It is good for those who get the same name and who do not, almost all the equipment in the house burns when instead of 220 there is 380, so do the grounding of the gentlemen. Proving then practically nothing will be impossible.

     
    Comments:

    # 17 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    In the central part of Lviv, the so-called Lviv power supply scheme for residential buildings, since pre-revolutionary times. There are ancient transformers 6 / 0.22 kV, the secondary windings are connected by a triangle, the linear (interphase) voltage is 220V, one corner of the triangle is used as a grounded zero, only 2 of the three secondary windings (having a grounded zero) are used.

     
    Comments:

    # 18 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    In the central part of Lviv, the so-called Lviv power supply scheme for residential buildings, since pre-revolutionary times. There are ancient transformers 6 / 0.22 kV, the secondary windings are connected by a triangle, the linear (interphase) voltage is 220V, one corner of the triangle is used as a grounded zero, only 2 of the three secondary windings (having a grounded zero) are used. And how about such a circuit to connect a transformer for halogen?

     
    Comments:

    # 19 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello, I have a problem .... the kitchen does not work with a socket from a stove and an ordinary socket, although there is a phase and zero there ... it happens that it shows two phases in a regular socket .... I can’t understand what a business ????

     
    Comments:

    # 20 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    I can’t understand, two wires come into the apartment panel on both potentials; I measure two 220 volts with each other with a multimeter. And if one probe on the pipe (STAND) then on one 110 volts, and on the other wire 140 volts.

    I understand this is a linear voltage. What then put automatic machines for switching the shield? Difa and ouzo after all will not work?

     
    Comments:

    # 21 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    So that is, three-phase diffs and ouzo. You can simply connect two phases to them.

     
    Comments:

    # 22 wrote: Nikolay | [quote]

     
     

    Evgeny,
    it happens in an apartment building, where the apartments hang on different phases, the zero wire burns out, and then the neighbors are connected in series between the two phases (380v). According to Ohm's law, in an apartment in which a large load is connected, the voltage is less, and vice versa. They are not lucky anymore for those who have more resistance in the apartment, but more often than not everyone is lucky. And grounding can’t fix anything. Gentlemen, put a voltage relay, they are really able to help (for an example, see RN-111M).

     
    Comments:

    # 23 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    He took in his hand one keypad of the multimeter, the other into the network, on one 30V wire on another 80V.

     
    Comments:

    # 24 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    The indicator screwdriver “shows the phase” both on the phase, and on the neutral wire, and on the ground, and even on a screw in the middle of the socket, If a charger is connected to one of the sockets (for example, for a phone, as in the picture at the beginning of the article) and If you hold this wire s / y when checking. Give it a try.

    Sorry. This effect is not observed on all charges. It was a charge of Samsung travel adapter, model: TAD137ESE (Samsung SGH-C110 phone). Charging is working and the phone is charging (but the experiment works). Now, on the other two for Nokia and on a USB adapter, this, I checked, does not work. Maybe this should not be?

     
    Comments:

    # 25 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    And I have some kind of strangeness.

    1) from the shield there is a cable to the box in the room
    2) there is a cable from the box in the room to the other end of the room
    3) the cable from the shield shows the phase at one end, zero at the other (on / off)
    4) a cable that goes to the other end of the room shows a phase at both ends (it glows brightly on one, dim on the other), even when connecting one cable conductor to the input cable phase (we don’t even connect the other end)
    5) dialing a problem cable does not give a result. That is, it does not squeak, it seems like there is no circuit.

    I can’t understand what’s the matter.

     
    Comments:

    # 26 wrote: Author | [quote]

     
     

    For bad contact in the circuit of the zero wire inside the box itself, if I correctly understood the situation from your words.

     
    Comments:

    # 27 wrote: Gennady | [quote]

     
     

    Author,
    but on the input cable itself (from the shield) everything is OK and the sockets connected to it are also OK. But the wire from it, which goes to another box, even when only the phase is connected (that is, we do not connect zero), gives a phase at both ends. In this case, the phase glows brightly, and zero is dim (for indication). Apparently induced voltage from insulation damage, without short circuit (so far without short circuit).

     
    Comments:

    # 28 wrote: Author | [quote]

     
     

    So it will be so, if there is a phase, but zero is not connected. Moreover, it will be exactly in that line where the zero is thrown back, but there is at least some kind of load.

     
    Comments:

    # 29 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    In the central part of Lviv, wires go to the plugs from the meter, and from them to the main distribution box. If you disconnect all wires and leave only those that come from the plugs, the indicator screwdriver shows the phase on both wires. I would not care if the housekeeper lamp did not blink constantly. Maybe someone will advise what?

     
    Comments:

    # 30 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Tell me please. Why does the indicator in the outlet show 2 phases, while the electrical appliances work when the machine is turned off? The tester shows 40 volts, and the indicator also has 2 phases.

     
    Comments:

    # 31 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Please tell me, in a friend’s outlet in the kitchen there are also two phases, not just at zero but in the ground, the tester shows 220 V between zero and ground, in other outlets it is not. The probe lights up when you touch the phase and touch the ground, but at zero everything is normal, the probe does not glow. What could be the reason.

     
    Comments:

    # 32 wrote: MaksimovM | [quote]

     
     

    Anatoly, if the problem is only on one outlet, then the reason is the wrong connection of this particular outlet. A phase conductor is connected to the ground contact, so it is necessary to connect the outlet correctly, in order to avoid negative consequences.
    wega, 40 V when the machine is turned off - this is the induced voltage from other wiring lines laid in the same strobe with this cable or in close proximity and which are under voltage. In this case, the indicator can show two phases, but in reality there are no two phases in these conductors. And if it's just induced voltage, then electrical appliances should not work. If the appliances are working, it means that the wrong circuit breaker is open or closes from another line, possibly due to damage to the insulation of the conductors laid nearby.

     
    Comments:

    # 33 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    As far as I remember, the linear principle of nutrition in Europe remained only in Budapest and Lviv. The legacy of Austria-Hungary.)))

     
    Comments:

    # 34 wrote: Arkady | [quote]

     
     

    I have two phases of 110 volts.

     
    Comments:

    # 35 wrote: Alexander | [quote]

     
     

    There are houses powered by their own needs of substations, which 2 phases of 127V lived in such a

     
    Comments:

    # 36 wrote: Vitalij | [quote]

     
     
    Once upon a time, Jumshuts made repairs in the apartment in which I live. The wiring was done without a switchboard, and therefore I can not find the place where they made the connections of these same wires. And two weeks ago, part of the sockets on which the biggest loads were supposed to cease to work. On both wires, the tester shows the phase. The question is, can I throw zero, at least for the duration of the search, from an outlet that works, and will it not overload the circuit to which I will connect? thanks
     
    Comments:

    # 37 wrote: Alexander | [quote]

     
     

    In my apartment, in sockets, in light bulbs, there are two phases, but there is no zero at all. The light is on and the counter is turning. When I found out, I was very scared and called a Zhekovsky electrician. who reassured me. said that it’s not just me. and the whole city center. Speaks and serves two phases of 110 volts. I don’t know how true this is, but the light is on, the refrigerator and other appliances are working.

     
    Comments:

    # 38 wrote: Victor | [quote]

     
     

    In an apartment in Riga, 3 wires come to the shield: brown, blue and yellow-green. There is a difavtomat, and after it 10 automatic machines. Brown wire after differential goes to the inputs of the machines, and blue to the 0 bar. Earth - on a separate bar. Everything seems to be normal, but in the sockets at both ends there are phases. Thought it was just a big tip. He began to connect the outlet. Knocked out the corresponding machine. I checked the indicator with a brown wire, there is no voltage. From blue, the indicator seems to glow a little. I’ve tried every wire with my hand, it’s not shocking. He closed with a screwdriver blue - zero and w / w - earth. Flash, knocked out Dif. in the apartment and a double machine at the entrance to the main shield. It turns out that the house has a 2-phase linear voltage of 220V without zero, still pre-war. Question: what and how to put a difavtomat, whether it will work and which machines to put after, leave single or double?