Categories: Electrician Secrets, Safety precautions
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How to make the washing machine not shock

 

How to make the washing machine not shockGetting hit is very unpleasant. And the most painful are blows from those from whom you do not expect aggressive behavior, who, on the contrary, are called upon to create coziness and comfort in your home. For example, how do you like it if your washing machine starts to fight?

Meanwhile, when included in a two-wire line, this is possible even for an absolutely functional washing machine. The reason is the features of the built-in mains filter located at the input of electrical power. The filter consists of two capacitors with a common point on the machine body. One capacitor connects the housing and the phase wire, and the other connects the housing and the neutral wire.

Washer

Manufacturers of modern washing machines naively believe that their creations will be included only in a three-wire electrical network with a separate protective conductor PE. In this case, there is nothing wrong with the two capacitors connecting the instrument case with phase and zero. Yes, the common wire acquires a potential of 110 volts, but its power is small, and the entire charge flows without consequences from the machine body to the protective neutral wire.

But reality is more complex and harsher. And in a two-wire line of 110 volts on the housing of the washing machine, you can easily feel it, having received a short-term, but very painful discharge with an unsuccessful touch.

And just do not think that the problem can be solved by disconnecting the common input filter wire from the housing. This will reduce the risk of electric shock, but not especially. After all, it is necessary to remember that the insulation of the wires laid inside the washing machine is subject to aging. This means that over time, the likelihood that the "phase" will be on the metal case increases. At first, this "phase" may be incomplete, but then we can get all the full 220 volts. And this despite the fact that the washing machine is most often installed in the bathroom - a room with increased danger!

“Tired” insulation is not an input filter for you, it can deliver unpleasant sensations when a weak capacitor is discharged. This is a direct threat to life and health.

That is why the housing of the washing machine must be included in the additional potential equalization system bathroom. A washing machine, a metal bath or shower, cold and hot water piping, a ventilation duct - all this must have a reliable electrical connection to each other. In this case, the simultaneous touch of two conductive structural elements will not threaten you with absolutely nothing.

Washing machine device

But a potential equalization system alone is not enough for complete safety. Indeed, for electric shock, there is one more chain: the washing machine body - the human body - the floor of the room. And there are only two ways to keep current from this dangerous path: install in the power circuit of the washing machine RCD or ground its housing. The methods, of course, can be combined.

An RCD in a two-wire line will work a little differently. If there is no grounding, then during the breakdown of insulation on the case, leakage current will not occur. RCD, respectively, will not work. It will work only when a person touches the "body" of the washing machine. A small current will appear, to which our protective device should react. The fact that the protection will work only when touched is unpleasant. But, as they say, it’s better that way than nothing.

Since the current when touching the case will be small, the RCD rating should also not be very high - 30 milliamps maximum.For an old two-wire network, it is better to use an RCD mounted directly in the socket so that there are fewer problems with false alarms.

How to make the washing machine not shockGrounding the housing of the washing machine allows you to generally electrically bypass the human body with an indirect touch. If a breakdown of insulation occurs, the current simply flows into the ground electrode system, without any danger.

But when performing protective grounding, difficulties can arise. Water pipes can not be used as grounding conductors. It is also forbidden to connect the zero working and zero protective conductors without a re-grounding device. As a result, if you have a two-wire network, you can only hope that the case drive electrical panel grounded. Otherwise, it will be necessary to part with the hopes of grounding the housing of the washing machine.

Find out how grounding is. switchboard at your entrance, it is possible in the operating organization - ZhEKe, HOA, etc.

Thus, we draw the following conclusions:

- If you have a three-wire line, and the washing machine started to “fight”, - check the integrity of the protective grounding circuit. Simple enough check voltage with a multimeter between the body of the machine and the "phase".

- If you have a two-wire line, you should try to arrange a separate grounding and a potential equalization system for the washing machine.

- If grounding cannot be performed, it is nevertheless necessary to arrange a potential equalization system in the bathroom and include an RCD of 30 mA or less in the circuit of the washing machine.


It should be noted that all of the above methods are best used when you are sure that the washing machine, in general, is working. It would be foolish to look for ways to solve the problem if the insulation of the lead-in cord is frayed in the machine itself and the “phase” directly hits the case. Yes, and RCD in this case, most likely, simply will not let the machine work at all. Therefore, if you began to receive electric shocks from your washing machine suddenly and recently, start with a detailed inspection of the culprit for obvious malfunctions.

At the time of preparation for resolving the issue with the “fighting” washing machine, you can try to insert its plug into the socket in a different way, that is, by reversing the zero and the “phase”. This is often effective if an insulation breakdown occurs in one of the wires relative to the load. If this wire is phase, then the device case begins to bite, and if it is zero, nothing happens. In a similar situation, to correct the situation at least temporarily, you can simply turn the plug over.

Alexander Molokov

Look on the topic:RCD in two-wire: to put or not to put?

See also at bgv.electricianexp.com:

  • How to connect the washing machine to the mains
  • What to do if an RCD or a difavtomat works when you connect a washing ...
  • Power supply and bathroom lighting
  • Connection of an electric stove and a washing machine in the TN-C system
  • How to properly ground the washing machine with your own hands

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    Comments:

    # 1 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Very useful information. The truth is more designed for a specialist.

     
    Comments:

    # 2 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    I live in my house and after installing the washing machine I was also shocked.

    Then, right on the wall where the machine was standing, I drove a piece of reinforcement 1.6 m into the ground, and I attached a wire to it, and its other end to the ground connector on the socket where the machine is connected.

    Everything stopped immediately :)

     
    Comments:

    # 3 wrote: Vladimir | [quote]

     
     

    The surge protector can be removed altogether, the wires can be directly connected and there will be no current. If ten, the motor is broken - also the machine is shocking.

     
    Comments:

    # 4 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Good and timely article. However, what does the phrase “just flows into the ground electrode” mean, does the current flow not along the circuit ???? What does it dissolve in the earth or how? In order for this article to be complete, it is necessary to clarify all the provisions with schemes !!!

     
    Comments:

    # 5 wrote: Alex gal | [quote]

     
     

    Sergey is right, the phrase

    Yes, the common wire acquires a potential of 110 volts, but its power is small, and the entire charge flows without consequences from the machine body to the protective neutral wire.

    extremely unfortunate and confuses the understanding of what, where, why, and why it flows from the hull.

    The essence of the process is as follows.

    If the machine’s case is not grounded, then half of the mains voltage (the same 110V) appears on it through the filter capacitors, since the capacitance of the capacitors from the phase to the case and from zero to the case is the same. Such a voltage divider is formed from them, where at the connection point of the capacitors there will be half the mains voltage. This happens because the capacitors of the line filter pass alternating current through themselves. But for a network frequency of 50Hz, they have a fairly large resistance. Therefore, the current through them is very small, only a few milliamps. And although the voltage of 110V seems large and dangerous, the resistance of capacitors to alternating current makes it just unpleasant for humans.

    It is this current that passes through the filter containers to the housing that flows to the ground through the PE protective conductor. Why does it drain and “dissolve in the earth”? Because our network is used with a grounded neutral and the earth is connected to the neutral (zero) output of the power source. That is, earth (grounding) is essentially one of the poles of the source. And as soon as a circuit appears with enough resistance for the current to flow between phase and ground, current begins to flow along this circuit.

    In this particular case, this is the leakage current from the phase through the filter capacitor to the housing and further to the ground. Or through the PE conductor, or through the body of a person who touched the body of a washing machine.

     
    Comments:

    # 6 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Alex Gal, Sergey, thanks for the comment - your wording really gives the question a lot of clarity.

     
    Comments:

    # 7 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    According to the PUE p. 1.7.70, various designs suitable for these purposes can be used as grounding conductors. First of all, you can use natural grounding, which can become:

    1. water and other metal pipelines laid in the ground, connected at the joints by gas or electric welding, with the exception of pipelines of flammable liquids, combustible and explosive gases and mixtures, sewers and central heating;
    2. pipes of wells;
    3. metal and reinforced concrete structures of the house in contact with the ground.

    In addition, to each consumer, after the substation, a neutral wire comes in, it is also protective - grounding (neutral earthed). After the metering device (electricity meter), the outgoing zero wire is N. And the ground wire is PE - the shield housing of the landing, by the way you will notice that this core is sitting on the housing of the floor shield. RCD, if installed, will not allow turning on the devices, if the neutral and protective conductors are shorted between each other after the metering device ..... This topic is too voluminous, but you need to know the regulatory technical documents before writing such articles. Do not mislead people. And if the wiring and grounding is performed in accordance with the regulatory and technical documents of the PUE, GOST there will not be any potential potentialities on the housing of household appliances.

    Power Engineer (25 years in the design and maintenance of electrical installations).

    And capacitors have nothing to do with them, they can be completely excluded from the circuit, except for the interference that appears on TVs and radios, nothing will change.

    The zero and protective conductor after the electricity meter are two different conductors !!!

     
    Comments:

    # 8 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Yuri, you know, when a person does not have enough facts - he begins to crush authority. Why these “25 years in the region and province”? I met such oaks with experience of 30 years or more, which for me it means little already.

    But in fact: if you really wanted to argue about concepts, then you shouldn’t have dragged the meter here in vain.First of all, it is not installed in every apartment. And secondly, he does not separate the protective and working neutral conductors. Just because the protective zero is not even connected to it.

    And the RCD will be triggered if PE and N are connected together not after the meter, but after the RCD itself. Is not it? And what is the "potential potentiality"? And how can you, as a power engineer, deny the possibility of aging of insulation of conductors?

    And on capacitors: what does it have to do with it? You can remove it - I agree. But “nothing to do with” - it doesn’t fit into the head.

    Gather your thoughts, understand the principle of operation of all this holobuda (including RCD), and then state what you do not agree with.

    Sincerely, Alexander.

    And, in the end, who, e-mine, argues that when the wiring is completed according to all requirements and is serviceable, when the washing machine also has no malfunctions, when an automatic machine and an RCD are installed in the apartment panel, the stump is clear, that you won’t get any unpleasant surprises from the machine’s body. What are you arguing with, I don’t understand? Are you fighting the windmills?

     
    Comments:

    # 9 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    According to the PUE p. 1.7.70, various designs suitable for these purposes can be used as grounding conductors. First of all, you can use natural grounding, which can become:

    1. water and other metal pipelines laid in the ground, connected at the joints by gas or electric welding, with the exception of pipelines of combustible liquids, combustible and explosive gases and mixtures, sewers and central heating;
    2. pipes of wells;
    3. metal and reinforced concrete structures of the house in contact with the ground.

    The service life of modern wires in polyvinyl chloride insulation according to the technical conditions even when working in aggressive environments with a temperature of +50 - -20 degrees Celsius - 20 years. It will take a long time to get old.

    And as for the experience - I am the only one who won the court against our regional power company with damages, proving that increased tension is a criminal offense - a link to 486 points, 128 normative technical documents. decisions, GOST ... ...... From the side of oblenergo, 20 "specialists" (technicians and lawyers) were present at the trial.

     
    Comments:

    # 10 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Again, some court inappropriately remember. And is he here?

    Yes, I am aware of the PUE standards that allow grounding from a metal pipeline. Just let us acknowledge the fact that the state of house engineering communications is often at a poor level. Earthed from a pipe that is still unknown, is it grounded or not, what can we fuck? After all, part of the riser on any floor for plastic can be changed for a long time.

    Wire life is yes. But only something can help their aging. From rodents, to factory defects in the manufacture of a machine or wire. But you never know what else happens. Dofig factors. It is also undesirable to remove the same capacitor from the circuit, because there is a guarantee and obligations.

     
    Comments:

    # 11 wrote: Alex gal | [quote]

     
     

    Yes, I am aware of the PUE standards that allow grounding from a metal pipeline.

    If we approach the issue strictly, then there are no such rules in the EMP. And it cannot be. Why - I will say below.

    The zero and protective conductor after the electricity meter are two different conductors !!!

    Right. But nobody seemed to dispute this :). These are different conductors. But they should not be separated only after, but BEFORE the meter.

    Yuri, do not boast of experience :) you are not the only one, I have more work experience in electrical installations, in 1978 I came after a university as a young specialist to production, consider it yourself. But the essence is not only in the number of years of experience, but also in knowledge and in understanding why it is necessary to do so, and not otherwise. In understanding the requirements of the same PUE.

    Here you are apparently having problems, since you advise you to disconnect the filter capacitors, which the manufacturer deliberately puts in their electrical devices.The filter in any device operates in two directions, and protects not only the radio from interference from the washing machine, but also the control unit of the machine from interference from the network.

    Similarly with the understanding of PUE. Well, what did you recall the clause of the PUE p. 1.7.70? Especially from the outdated :) PUE 6, in relation to modern household appliances, which is designed for the requirements of PUE7?

    Well, and even take PUE6, what's your list of natural grounding conductors from it? Who told you that it is possible to ground a washing machine from such grounding conductors in an old 2-wire power supply network? You can’t do this! It is impossible! Open the same PUE6 section 7, paragraph 7.1.59 and read how and where you need to lead the grounding conductor to electrical appliances in residential buildings. Look there for a point where it would be permitted not to lead the third wire from the input shield, but to take it from the water pipe :). And in PUE 6 and PUE7, the requirements for this are unambiguous: grounding at the transformer substation and re-grounding at the input. Here and use paragraph 1.7.70. It does not apply to the grounding of washing machines in a single apartment. Here, only from the floor (apartment) shield is the third wire. (Which is fraught with electric shock if the riser breaks off.)

    Next, you bring in the proof :) 1.7.70. But this is the point on the device grounding conductors, those in the earth are! But the water pipe in the apartment is NOT in the ground, it cannot be an EARTH. And if you mistakenly called it that, but you wanted to say "grounding protective conductor" through which you can ground the washing machine, then carefully read the item PUE6 (since you have chosen it) 1.7.73. especially his ending:

    The conductors, structures, and other elements listed in paragraphs 2 - 8 can serve as the only grounding or zero protective conductors if they satisfy the requirements of this chapter in terms of conductivity and if the continuity of the electrical circuit is ensured throughout use.

    So I return your wish :) normative technical documents you need to know and understand their requirements.

    Moreover, such advice is dangerous in our time, when often the decentralized change of risers and pipes inside the apartments to plastic. Thus, separate sections of steel pipes appear in the houses, which are not connected in any way with grounding.

    And about the "durable ageless insulation" :). You did not forget that we are talking about a washing machine and the moisture associated with it? About 20 years of waiting, you are greatly bent :), because leaks not only occur through the insulation of wires, but also through heating elements, contact connections, control units, etc.

     
    Comments:

    # 12 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    For those who drive the pin (s) into the ground and ground the washing machine on it - drive it into their head, it will be better for everyone.
    Read PUE not in separate paragraphs, but in minimum sections.
    Learn STEP voltage.

     
    Comments:

    # 13 wrote: Alexander | [quote]

     
     

    Beauties. We had a fight, experienced and waved the rules. What should I do? The machine is beating an electric current, there is no grounding, there is no grounded shield, all the plumbing is in plastic. What to do?

     
    Comments:

    # 14 wrote: Jacob | [quote]

     
     

    Alexander, if the washing machine is technically sound, but beats with current, then in the absence of grounding, you can only wait until it is done, i.e. you need to wait for the modernization of the riser in the house for five-wire. If you live in a private house, then everything is simpler - you need to make your own grounding device. In any case, put an RCD - you will not regret it, because without an RCD it is quite dangerous to use such a washing machine.

     
    Comments:

    # 15 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Thanks to the arguing, I learned a lot of interesting things from your skirmish. Truth is born in a dispute! If this expression had not been invented before me, then I would be the first.

     
    Comments:

    # 16 wrote: Vlad | [quote]

     
     

    If your washing machine is electrocuted and for some reason you don’t like it - throw it in the trash and wash it by hand, as our oldest comrades in historical chronology did for hundreds of years before us! And you will save your nerves, and your health will become stronger from physical labor!

     
    Comments:

    # 17 wrote: Ivan | [quote]

     
     

    Thank you for the article! Helped deal with the "fighting" machine!

     
    Comments:

    # 18 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    There is such a problem in an old housing stock with two-wire apartment networks.
    When he himself encountered this, he grounded the washer on a metal pipe of cold water supply (has excellent connection to the ground) and at the same time to zero from the floor plate (as a separate line). It goes without saying that washing machine power is supplied through an RCD with a sensitivity of 30 mA. It is curious that between the cold water pipe and zero in the panel (before they were connected in the apartment panel) there was 12-15V - the uneven load gives a zero shift.

     
    Comments:

    # 19 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Truth is born in a dispute .... But !!! What should Alexander do with his machine and European-quality repair in plastic? So there was no way out .... But the machine bites. Then - close your eyes on the PUE and make a jumper in a three-wire outlet between the working zero and the ground terminal. Plug the plug into this outlet and wash it calmly ....

     
    Comments:

    # 20 wrote: Author | [quote]

     
     

    Wait for Alexander. And hope. In the meantime, be extremely careful and include the machine in the network only for the period of its direct use.

     
    Comments:

    # 21 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    In fact, the bathroom is a particularly dangerous room (conductive floor + humidity, before dampness), deaths from 5V are described.
    In any case, put RCDs to ground, in any reasonable way (from reinforced concrete reinforcement, on the lower floors they throw their grounding out onto the street, etc.).
    Although it is customary in the United States to put a lot of RCDs in outlets, if it is impossible to make a big repair, I advise you to divide the entire apartment into 2-3 or more parts (wires in the boxes) and put RCDs on each part.
    I would really like to look at the grounded Soviet-era floor guard. For 15 years of apartment renovations in Kiev, I have not seen such anywhere. Only grounding. They say that when replacing the riser wires, they extend a wire rod along the riser and digest it with all the floor shields.
    It’s too early for Andrey Chernov to rejoice: and step voltage, and does he have an RCD?
    Alexander, whose machine is beating an electric current, has no grounding, no grounding shield, plumbing is all in plastic - as in some cases of operation of serious electrical installations, to work with a washing machine from an insulating stand and to ensure that it is impossible to touch the machine and, say, the wall at the same time. And again, the RCD.
    For Buhugr: You measure the current between the floor plate and the water pipe with ticks - it can be very decent. I made a separate supply line for a washing machine with an RCD and a zero for one customer in the old house, so zero riser connected to the water pipe through an aluminum (probably) braid of the rubber water hose. There were the same 12-15V, the braid exploded.

     
    Comments:

    # 22 wrote: alex | [quote]

     
     

    Hello, please tell me what to do. I bought a washing machine a day ago. It is shocking. I called for a guarantee. They refuse to come and look at it. They said it’s a grounding. I have one more washing machine but it does not hit. tell me what to do? and why the second does not hit ??

     
    Comments:

    # 23 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    alex,
    Grounding, in addition to the purely protective function of you from electric shock, as a consumer, is designed to accelerate the action of protective devices to disconnect problematic devices from the electrical network. If it’s very rude to say, with absolutely perfect equipment, and with its proper use, grounding is not required (only an example for one minute!). The presence of any potential (voltage) on the housing indicates either damage to the insulation of one of the machine parts (wire, motor, control unit, etc.), or about the operation of the machine in high humidity conditions (they poured water over it, put wet things on it, which something like that). Other options are possible, but they are unlikely.

     
    Comments:

    # 24 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Please tell me whether the following measures will help to avoid electric shock:

    1. Do not enter the bath while the machine is in operation

    2. Do not take showers on wash days

    3. keep the bathroom door open so that condensation does not form

    4. turn off the electricity in the apartment using the machine after the machine gives a signal about the end of washing

    5.always unplug the power outlet

     
    Comments:

    # 25 wrote: author | [quote]

     
     

    For Asi: this is too much. There are enough points 2 (only it’s not about days, but about minutes) and 5. Well, 3 will not hurt, especially with poor vetilation.

     
    Comments:

    # 26 wrote: Ivan | [quote]

     
     

    To protect the user from electromagnetic radiation (causes skin irritation), computer and other modern devices (flat TVs, etc.) need grounding in outlets. Without grounding, safe health standards are violated.

    It also requires the right temperature for human health in a room of 22 degrees Celsius.

     
    Comments:

    # 27 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Lord! The washing machine does not ground, but vanishes! An attempt to ground the machine on the floor shield in the event that the neutral wire is burned leads to the appearance of a voltage of about 300 volts on its case! An attempt to ground the machine on a water pipe or building reinforcement will either lead to the killing of neighbors or is it simply useless - you will not be able to create a ground with a resistance of less than 4 ohms, this is the resistance value of the grounding circuit of the substation, which means that in case of a breakdown on the case, the phase on your case will be volt that way 170. Equalization of potential in the bathroom without the same system in the switchboard is dangerous! But you forgot about the water !!! The washing machine is already grounded on water !!! Water resistance is approximately 15-20 ohms per meter. How right. Stupidly there is no third wire. We put a phase circuit breaker strictly at 16 amperes, a 15 amp outlet with a cover, in the typewriter machine, MANDATORY disconnect the power filter from the housing. We completely connect the machine to the water and sewage system, it is always damp in the sewage system. We put in the UZO outlet - strictly UZO-DPA-16V for 10 milliamps. All! For machines with electromechanical control, an UZO of 30 milliamps in the apartment panel is also suitable. But it must be remembered that stable voltage is extremely important for the long-term reliable operation of an electronically controlled machine. Necessarily necessary stabilizer and high-speed, which means electronic. In general, the apartment should have not only an RCD, but also a surge protection relay. Suffice it to say that modern TVs, for example, with a pulsed power supply, do not burn when they burn off zero and exceed voltage, they smolder, everything remains intact in the apartment, except for the TV and the owner, who fell asleep under the TV and was poisoned to death by plastic decay products - are especially poisonous. We throw out the TV, bury the owner and live on. As an example, when connecting the washer, the resistance of the ground circuit to water was measured. The water supply tap is closed, the hose to the machine is rubber, the water and sewer pipes are plastic. Measured the resistance of the circuit-phase-machine-earth drum. The result is 1200 ohms. An RCD of 30 milliamps is not good - a high voltage touch in case of a decrease in insulation resistance. We choose UZO-DPA-16V for 10 milliamps, with zero protection - in the event of a voltage failure, this relay requires its inclusion, protects the electronics of the washing machine from failures and breakdowns. The resistance value at which the UZO-20 kilo-ohm will work - then the leakage current is 10 milliamps - the contact voltage on a non-working machine is no more than 7 volts. With a "clean phase", it works instantly. When the machine is operating, the touch voltage is not more than 3 volts with instantaneous shutdown when touched. As far as the third wire in the socket, it is effective only with a high level of maintenance of the electrical installation, otherwise it is simply dangerous to transfer the circuit to the housing into a single-phase K.Z. EXTREMELY OR FIRE IF THE AUTOMATIC MACHINE OR ELECTRIC SHOCK DO NOT OPERATE. Ideally, when there is a third wire and an RCD. In general, you just have to be careful with sophisticated household appliances — let's say energize the machine at the very last moment when everything is ready. A reliable washing machine in our conditions is a metal tank, an induction motor (spin speed not higher than 800-900 rpm) and electromechanical control. No need to chase the tricked out technique - the simpler, the more reliable.

     
    Comments:

    # 28 wrote: Author | [quote]

     
     

    Monk: They talked a lot, and some things are very controversial.

    About grounding and grounding: the main thing is not to put this unfortunate machine on a working zero.

    In the event of a break in the neutral wire on the body of the machine, the body of which is connected to the floor (common) shield, a potential of 300 volts cannot occur. 300 volts can be in this case only relative to the phase wire, and no one is going to touch it.

    4 Ohms is the resistance of the charger in the network of 380 volts, and not 220. The water supply could well be the charger, but it is better not to use it because the continuity of its electrical circuit is not controlled by anyone, and everyone makes changes to its design within its apartment. It’s not for long to really kill the neighbors.

    Water is not grounding at all. What nonsense is this? It would be grounding, the machine would probably not be shocked. Moreover, water is poured over dozens of seconds, and then the valve cuts off this happiness.

    Regarding how "right": the connection to the water supply and sewage system does not matter. Automatic and RCD - yes. But the RCD, in view of the deterioration of the networks, is better combined with an outlet. A voltage relay is a good thing, but not strictly required.

     
    Comments:

    # 29 wrote: reader | [quote]

     
     

    Gentlemen, add diagrams or photos to your comments.

     
    Comments:

    # 30 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    The article says:

    "- If grounding cannot be done, you still need to set up a potential equalization system in the bathroom and include an RCD of 30 mA or less in the circuit of the washing machine."

    As I understand the author, the proposal must be continued "and do not connect the washing machine body to this potential equalization system."

    Faced a situation:

    1. The washing machine is installed in the kitchen and connected with rubber hoses.

    2. Electrical wiring 2-wire, no land on the floor.

    3. At the entrance to the apartment, water meters are installed through metal-plastic pipes (inserts)

    The washing machine is “biting” with filters on the body. Electric shock when you wash in the bathroom. One arm for a shower hose in a metal braid, and the legs in the bathroom.

    I put an RCD on 30 mA - it beats with current, the circuit does not turn off.

    He got rid of electric shocks by making a potential equalization system (washing machine body, water tap, bathtub and metal water pipes at the entrance to the apartment).

    The potential difference between the riser and my mixer (before they were connected) was 60 V, when they are closed, a current of 3 mA flows.

    What is this fraught with? If the phase (God forbid) gets on the body of my washing machine, gets on the water pipe to the neighbors and if they take this pipe and stand on the wet floor? Then they (like me in the same position) will be beaten with electric shock, but I hope not fatally ...

    Is this permissible? Or should the washing machine case be disconnected from the potential equalization circuit, and the only protection will be to disconnect it from the network during showering?

    Some kind of nonsense, should there be a normal solution, a normal solution?

    And this decision (scheme) for connecting the washing machine should be determined by specialists and given as MANDATORY.

    Indeed, a lot of equipment has 110 V on the case (washing and dishwashers, microwave, computers.

    What do you think?

     
    Comments:

    # 31 wrote: Valery | [quote]

     
     

    While reading the article a question arose. Or even two. If there is an equation of potentials and RCD during the breakdown of insulation, the RCD will work, since the leakage current to the water supply and everything else will be clearly more than 30 mA. Why do you say that it will work only when you touch a person? Second question. Talk about comparing the potentials, the connection of the washer with water pipes and immediately write that it is forbidden to ground using water pipes ... But what is the difference between fulfilling the equation of potentials of the washer and water pipes and grounding the washer with pipes? In both cases, with the help of a piece of conductor, the washer’s body and the water supply are connected.

    Quote: Valery
    What is this fraught with? If the phase (God forbid) gets on the body of my washing machine, gets on the water pipe to the neighbors and if they take this pipe and stand on the wet floor?

    then nothing will happen to the neighbors, since by that time the RCD will work for you

     
    Comments:

    # 32 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    I read your comments and did not understand what to do if the washing machine is electrocuted? I live in an old five-story building with a two-wire network, all pipes are cold. water, mountains water, sewage plastic. I did not begin to pull the ground wire from the evil shield on the site because I was not sure about the grounding of the electrical panels at the entrance to each other and to the ground loop. I did not begin to connect the ground and ground terminals in the outlet either, since there is a danger of getting a phase on the washing machine body when the zero is extinguished in the electric panel. For now, we are saved by the fact that we do not use the bathtub while the machine is in operation, but sometimes we forget and get another unpleasant electric shock, and when the drainage process is in progress, it comes from tap water.

     
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    # 33 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello! I do not want to say who and where correctly writes :-), besides, I do not have the necessary competence in this dispute. I can only say that when installing my washer 13 years ago I was worried about the lack of grounding. Rather, I was worried about electric shock during the breakdown to the body. That's why I connected the grounding contact to zero in the socket - I assumed that during a breakdown there will be a short-circuit current, which in turn will turn off the machine at the entrance to the apartment. As a result - 11 years there were no complaints. 2 years ago, during repair, removed this jumper. He began to notice that the machine bites when I take out my wet laundry. And before, these were isolated cases, now it hits constantly. I don’t know whether the removed jumper is to blame, or is it just natural wear and tear - I plan to repair it, at the same time I will check the condition of the wiring, tenon and motor ...

     
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    # 34 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Clarification to the previous message: I changed the drain pump, the machine stopped electric shock ... There is still no grounding :-)

     
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    # 35 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    The question is about the same, a multicooker is shocking, a dishwasher and a kettle included in one pilot, but they only beat when you touch the sink, the sink is not grounded, connected to the pump station. I live in a private house. Can the earth be from water, from a well through water, can water be a conductor? Metal-plastic pipes.

     
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    # 36 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    I inserted the plug of the outlet upside down ... no longer shocking. Thank you very much for the article!

     
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    # 37 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Author,

    In the event of a break in the neutral wire on the body of the machine, the body of which is connected to the floor (common) shield, a potential of 300 volts cannot occur. 300 volts can be

    You either didn’t understand what kind of zero was talking about, or you weren’t competent. When common zero is burned down the riser, the phase “flies” from the neighbor through its load, the voltage is possible from 0 to 400 V. Yes, yes, exactly 400, because the norm 230/400 has been in effect for several years.

     
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    # 38 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    I’ll have a 30 ma difavtomat on the apartment, I will extend the ground wire from the shield in the entrance to the outlet in the bathroom (I put it under the bolt on the shield body) I will connect the washing machine. Have I done the right thing? Or is there enough differential gear? The system in the apartment is 2-wire.

     
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    # 39 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    PUE and labor protection is a religion that you can not believe in, but the ceremonies prescribed there must be observed and everything will be normal. Everyone constantly wants to outsmart someone by the rules and everything will work fine.

     
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    # 40 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Good afternoon! From everything that was written about (beating washed, cold, etc.) I understood (IF THERE IS NO POWER CIRCUIT TO THE PRODUCT HOUSING), IS CONDERA AND WRESTLING TO MAKE EARTHING (frequent sector)? Do you understand correctly? Thanks.

     
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    # 41 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Andrey Chernov,
    Andrey Chernov,
    But the Monk is not so wrong! The resistance of the substation circuit is 2.4.8 Ohms at linear voltages of 660.380 and 220 volts, respectively. But we have just 380 volts on the floor plate, it’s phase and zero in the apartment, and the voltage is 220 volts (in the ideal case), and at the transformer substation’s output there are generally about 400 volts of line voltage, taking into account its drop in the supply line, but the substation's ground loop should just have a maximum of 4 ohms of resistance, like electrical installations at 380 volts in line voltage. In fact, taking into account additional grounding conductors - no more than 0.5 -1 ohm, the resistance of the substation circuit. Let's make a simple calculation. You have a resistance of ground loop of -2 ohms - an ideal case of using a deep ground electrode. At the substation -1 ohm. The resistance of the zero, phase and zero protective conductors is neglected, due to the smallness in comparison with these values. The total resistance of the ground loops is 3 ohms. K.Z. current, considering the Earth outside the ground loops as one large ideal conductor, with a "deaf" metal K.Z. and phase voltage 220 volts. = 220/3 = 73.3 amperes. Touch voltage on the grounded housing of the washer-73.3 * 2 = 146.6 volts. Little does not seem! Zero break on the floor plate. Before the break, you have a load resistance of -1000 ohms, a neighbor has 10 ohms, a load current of 220-2000 = 0.22 amperes, a neighbor -220/10 = 220 amperes, why zero burned out. Now, after a cliff, your apartments are connected to 380 volts. Phase - apartment, former zero, apartment - phase (apartments within the staircase are in different phases). We have a serial connection of 380 volts. 1000 + 10 = 1010 ohm. 380/1010 = 0.3762. The neighbor has 0.3762 * 10 = 3.762 volts, you have -0.3762 * 1000 = 376 volts !!!, and on the floor shield the machine body is connected, well, it will have about 350 volts on it. Somehow I didn’t notice, one old experienced electrician, well, quite old, laid me computer networks with a zero wire with a 0.5-phase cross-section, grabbed what was on hand, there was no money for a new wire. Well, the power of the um, three rooms with computers and other office equipment, oh and it hit me on the budget! When all three halls reached full load power, the cord stupidly came to the zero wire, with all the consequences, there is no protection in the neutral wire, there was no fire, but with serious equipment downtime. The phase load was strictly symmetrical, but pulsed transformerless power supplies know their job tightly, they overloaded the 35–40 percent zero wire, and fireworks appeared at the place of the weakest contact. Indeed, for such power supplies, the rule the current of phase A + plus phase B plus phase C = 0 does not work with a symmetrical load, there is always an addition of 40% of the neutral wire current, due to the peculiarities of the operation of pulsed transformerless power supplies. On the lower floors of buildings and in your home, you can still use the TT system for nutrition and it will be nice and beautiful, well, until the inspector of RES-a knows, then the ass will be like a baboon, for initiative without permission. But in homes with air inlets, only this system is used, though expensive, an infection.

     
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    # 42 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Victor
    But they forgot about one very interesting moment! Well, stupidly there is no regular grounding (grounding), that is, there is no third wire in the outlet. To ground on a water pipe is useless and dangerous for neighbors, I agree. But even if there is a regular grounding or a very dangerous option of grounding to the floor shield, in which 7-12 volts of voltage from the working zero on the floor shield will already come to the machine’s body, and it will come to the surge protector designed to combat interference and will create just powerful interference that can ruin the electronic circuit of the machine, the machine will not protect you from electric shock! When the phase enters the case, a single-phase K.Z. will occur .. the machine operating time is no less than 0.09 seconds, the voltage on the grounded case is -110 volts from the voltage drop during K.Z.on the protective conductor and 110 volts - voltage drop in phase in all cases until the protection is activated. An even worse option is when there is no grounding at all and there will be no shutdown in case of phase output to the housing. And here is an important point - if the phase in the worst case has tightly entered the housing, for example, as the most common option, with a heating element, then it will inevitably fall on the steel drum of the washing machine, in which the laundry is located, and therefore on the water since both the washing machine and the supply pipe are filled with water. The resistance of tap water is from 12 to 130 ohm-meter of water, on average about 15-30 ohm-meter of water. So the machine, even with standard grounding, will “take out” the potential of 110 volts to the water riser even with plastic pipes, even with plastic pipes, with steel pipes there is a chance that the current in the water riser will simply go several tens of amperes, but the voltage drop should still be 110 volts. Although if you consider that the machine is connected via water and sewage with rubber hoses, then the removal of the potential will still be via water. The most frigging option, when there is no grounding at all, then it will carry out a potential of 220 volts through water when the phase is deafened to the case and this potential will not be turned off. And this will happen only because you just decided to wash and did not connect any ground to the water pipes. It turns out that if to the neighbor’s tap, roughly 3 meters, and the neighbor decided to wash and, touching the water with one hand reached for the towel with his other hand and accidentally touched the heated towel rail, then it will be hit by voltage or 110 or 220 volts! It simply kills, so with a water resistance of 1 ohm-meter of water even at 30 ohms, and a neighbor’s body at 1000 ohms, then the voltage drop on the water column will be about 10% of 110 or 220 volts, and the rest will get the neighbor. Launched laundry on the ninth floor, and killed a neighbor on the ground floor! Strictly speaking, it is impossible to use washing machines in houses without regular grounding, but with our level of service for electrical networks, this supposedly protective grounding is more dangerous than its absence. Only the installation of RCDs on all household appliances connected to water - boilers, washing machines and dishwashers. The PUE prohibits the installation of RCDs in two-wire networks without an earth wire, for example, if a phase appears on the machine’s body and there is no washing, there is no water, then the RCD will not work, you can be energized. Therefore, organizational measures for safety measures are necessary, remove the plug from the outlet or disconnect the machine between washes, and it is necessary to apply voltage to the machine only after it is fully ready for work, immediately after the washing is completed, release the voltage. But here the danger is only for you and your family. But when carrying out the potential, a danger arises for several dozen people and RCDs should be on everyone on all washing machines. The bottom line is that the RCD trips at setpoint currents of 50 to 100%. According to the IEC standard, a residence time of 220 volts for household electrical installations with a body weight of up to 15 kilograms within 0.02-0.05 seconds is considered relatively safe. The RCD is capable of fulfilling this requirement with a set current of 3 times the set current. For 10 milliamps, that's 30 milliamps, for 30 milliamps it's 90 milliamps. From this it is clear that simply putting an RCD is not enough, you need to measure the resistance of the leakage current path through the water, it should be a maximum of 2200 ohms with an RCD of 30 milliamps, the smaller the better. With a resistance of 2200 ohms and a voltage of 220 volts, a leakage current of 0.1 amperes or 100 milliamps will occur, which is enough to operate an RCD even with a setting of 30 milliamps, this is equivalent to the resistance of a water column 73 meters long with a water resistance of 30 ohm-meter. And in this case it doesn’t matter where and what potential it will carry, it will be disconnected in a safe time. No one will be hurt, although it is not pleasant to receive an electric shock from a tap with water, although not dangerous.It is already necessary to take some measures to force the safe use of equipment, because you have installed an RCD, and the neighbor is not, both will suffer because of such a neighbor. But protecting the computer with the help of an RCD is indeed useless until it shocks with current, and it is not yet known what value it is impossible to guarantee its triple value with the set current - the protection will not work.

     
    Comments:

    # 43 wrote: Edik | [quote]

     
     

    There is such a thing - an isolation transformer is called. Put it between the mains and the washing machine. It turns out galvanic isolation, that is, a radical solution to the issue, and such a "breakdown of the phase to the housing" is no longer terrible by definition. An important nuance - a very small inter-winding capacity of this transformer is needed. On sale there are various - from simple cheap to expensive for medical equipment.