Categories: Electrician at home, Automata and RCD
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What to do if the machine works in the electrical panel

 

What to do if the machine works in the electrical panelIf the light goes out in the apartment, the sockets are turned off, or the electric stove has stopped working, then any person who is more or less familiar with electrical engineering goes to the site to check in the electrical panel circuit breaker status. Most often, troubleshooting is reduced to restarting the machine.

The fact of operation of a modern modular circuit breaker is easily determined: the handle is in the "down" position, a round sign - "zero" is clearly visible on it. To turn it on, simply turn this knob up, then a horizontal line will appear, and we can assume that the mission has been completed.

Many apartments in the post-Soviet space are equipped with guards with automatic machines of a slightly different type. AE series circuit breakers and the like have slightly larger dimensions, fasten to the base with long screws and have an unpleasant property: when triggered, their handle remains in the same upper position. This makes it difficult to find a tripped machine, which must be turned off and on again in order to re-apply voltage.

But all this, by and large, trifles. A triggered machine indicates some kind of malfunction, but we need to figure out which one.


Circuit breaker releases

First you need to find out at least in general terms, what is a circuit breaker and how does it work. Many people know that the machine breaks the "phase". A multipolar circuit breaker can also break the zero working conductor. But the machine can break the circuit not only at the request of the owner, turning the handle down. That's why it is an “automatic” switch that it can turn off automatically.

This is necessary in order to protect the conductors and apartment electrical equipment from increased electric current that can cause fire and destruction. The cause of the increase in current can be:

1. Network congestion. It can be caused by the inclusion of faulty power consumers, or power consumers, whose total power exceeds the capacity of the network. The latter may be related to improper electrical wiring around the apartment, when one group has a large number of power outlets. Each outlet separately may well not be overloaded, but their total current can reach values ​​that are unacceptable for one machine.

For protection against overload currents in circuit breakers thermal release - a bimetallic contact, the state of which depends on the temperature, which, in turn, depends on the flowing electric current. The setpoint, that is, the trip current of the thermal release, can usually be adjusted within small limits.

2. Network short circuit. It can be caused by a fault in the wiring or the failure of any power receiver. For new wiring, a short circuit may result from an installation error, for example, when connecting wires to junction box. Physically short circuit - This is the electrical connection of the phase and neutral conductor in addition to the load. Since the circuit resistance in this case is limited only by the resistance of the wires, the electric current instantly reaches a very large value.

To protect against overcurrents of short circuit, the thermal release of the machine is ineffective: while the bimetallic contact heats up and breaks, the wires will almost certainly be damaged, and an electric arc will cause a fire. Therefore, in modular circuit breakers it is always used electromagnetic release, the response rate of which is a fraction of a second from the moment the current increases.

So, if a circuit breaker has tripped in your apartment panel, you can, of course, turn it on again. However, a systematic response indicates a problem that will have to be addressed. What to do if the machine turned off in the electrical panel?


Short circuit in the outlet circuit

Circuit breakers in the panelWith the instantaneous operation of the machine after it is turned on, there is every reason to believe that we are dealing with a short circuit - the thermal release will not work so quickly. You can verify the presence of a circuit with multimeter - the resistance between the zero working bus N and the output of the circuit breaker during a short circuit should be close to zero. Of course, such measurements can be made only with the machine turned off.

Once we are convinced that the cause of the operation is a short circuit, it is necessary to find out exactly where it happened. The circuit breakers in the panel must be selected in accordance with the principles of selectivity, which means that it is the circuit breaker that is closest to the location of the short circuit that must work. In this case, the switch responds only to short circuits in that part of the circuit, which is located after it relative to the line.

Therefore, let’s say, if only the input circuit breaker is tripped, then the circuit is most likely located directly in the input shield. When a circuit is closed within the apartment, a group switch is triggered and often with it an opening circuit breaker. In this case, the input device can be safely turned on again and find out which particular group of power receivers is connected to the problem wire - this group will not work.

Having clarified this issue, you can turn off all of these power consumers and re-enter the group machine into operation. If it did not work, then the cause is a malfunction of one of the disconnected electrical appliances. You can find a specific culprit either by switching on all the power consumers in turn, or by measuring their input resistance. The second method is not suitable for devices with electronic control. A defective device, of course, is subject to repair.

If all devices are serviceable, it is necessary to start inspecting the outlets that are part of the group: disassemble the plastic cases, check and tighten the terminal clamps. After sockets comes the turn of boxes. They will have to be opened. And if the inspection does not reveal obvious malfunctions, then the wires must be disconnected to check the resistance between the cores of the cables separately. Such a check will already accurately determine which cable has a short circuit. The damaged line must be replaced, and the cores in the box must be reconnected using certified clamps.


Short circuit in the lighting circuit

If the tripping circuit breaker protects the lighting circuits, the test can be started by introducing the circuit breaker with the circuit breakers turned off. The machine did not work - you can click the switches one by one in order to find out which of them has a short circuit in the circuit. Thus, we narrow the search area to the chain of a group of fixtures introduced from one switch.

In this group, each lamp should be carefully inspected by unscrewing the lamps and examining the terminal clamps. With a multimeter, you can measure the resistance between the phase and neutral wires from the side of each lamp. In this case, you can determine the lamp or cable line in which the circuit occurred.

If a short circuit is detected on all fixtures of the group, or is present in the network regardless of the position of the switch, then the location of the circuit is most likely a branch box of lighting. It must be opened and checked in the same way as in the case of the closure of the outlet network. Well, and if the box is in full order, then we call the individual cable lines, disconnecting their ends.



Network congestion

Circuit breakersAs already mentioned, in the event of a network overload by current, the circuit breaker takes some time to operate. This is usually a few minutes. Therefore, if the machine kicks out from time to time, it may very well be that you are dealing with overload.


Lighting circuit overload - the phenomenon is quite rare, and to avoid it, use only lamps that are suitable for the power of your lamps, and upgrade the lighting circuit taking into account the reserve for power. After all, the lighting circuits of individual apartments are often protected by one machine for ten amperes. This is often enough, but when installing a large number of additional fixtures in the shield, it is necessary to provide an additional automatic lighting for their power, especially if the lamps are halogen or with conventional incandescent lamps.


Outlet overload - this is not uncommon. During the design and installation of wiring in the house, it is impossible to accurately determine the load on each group. Therefore, for the convenience of residents, a group included by one circuit breaker has three to four outlets. And, despite the fact that the rating of the circuit breaker is usually selected according to the cross section of the supply core and does not exceed 25 amperes, the rated current of sockets can be 16 amperes.

There are all prerequisites for overloading, if all powerful power consumers, such as a kettle, iron, microwave and the like, are included in the sockets of the same group. Here, of course, the circuit breaker will trip. And to prevent this from happening, it is necessary to evenly distribute the powerful load between the groups, and in the absence of such an opportunity, not to include several powerful electrical receivers simultaneously in the network.

It happens that a faulty appliance consumes high current, which leads to network overload and the circuit breaker trips. It is not always possible to measure the current in domestic conditions, but if the thermal release is triggered only when one of the electrical receivers is turned on, and the rated power of this device does not exceed 2.5 kW, then it should be audited for malfunctions.


Circuit breaker failure

It is not so rare that the circuit breakers are constantly triggered by a malfunction of the latter. Even among new machines, a certain number of defective copies is allowed. Their inability to keep the setpoint (and this applies mainly to thermal releases) is often detected only during operation.

Therefore, with the systematic operation of the thermal release of the machine, before proceeding with radical methods of solving the problem, you can simply make a trial replacement of the machine with a similar one in nominal value and characteristic.


Finally

In the article, we deliberately ignored the moments when the operation of the machine is caused damage to the line during repair work - This is a topic for another discussion. For the same reason, we did not concern ourselves with the situation when a differential circuit breaker trips.

But in the end I would like to remind you that the most popular way to solve the problem of a triggered automaton - replacing it with an automaton of a higher nominal value - is categorically not permissible. Circuit breakers are devices that provide protection against fire and damage. Their face value is selected precisely for the purpose of ensuring safety. An arbitrarily selected machine will not perform its functions and will not protect against dangerous operating modes of the electrical network.

Alexander Molokov 

See also on this topic: Is it worth replacing a circuit breaker if it "knocks out"?

See also at bgv.electricianexp.com:

  • Is it worth replacing a circuit breaker if it "knocks out"?
  • Wiring problems: what to do and how to fix them?
  • Characteristics of circuit breakers
  • Thermal circuit breaker release
  • The choice of a machine by the number of poles

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    Comments:

    # 1 wrote: Gosh | [quote]

     
     

    I'll try to add something important. Many people think that if an automatic machine worked in an electric panel, then this is very bad and you need to do something to prevent it from working further. Some not quite competent comrades, sometimes electric colleagues suggest replacing the machine with a device with a large operating current. In fact, if an automatic machine works for you, then you need to rejoice, since you have correctly selected and rebuilt protection working! If the machine did not work, then everything could just burn out, and you would not have an apartment, well, or a house. Naturally, you need to understand why it worked, but at the same time, you can’t change it to another, since this is its main purpose - to operate in case of various accidents in the power grid - short circuits and overloads.

     
    Comments:

    # 2 wrote: Sergei | [quote]

     
     

    My automatic machine occasionally works when I turn on the boiler and at the same time I already have something turned on from electrical appliances, such as a kettle, i.e. if according to the article I have an overload of the outlet network. I understand that you need to change the wiring in the house, and then you can already choose another machine. It is expensive, even better if the machine in the electrical panel works. This somehow doesn’t bother me much - I waited 10-15 minutes and turned it on again. At the same time, checking the machine for operability is obtained.

     
    Comments:

    # 3 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Automata just do not work is a fact. Inspect the machine, suitable and outgoing wires for burning, if everything is in order, look for a problem in your wiring.

     
    Comments:

    # 4 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Today I turned on the washing machine, and somewhere in the 5th minute the machine worked in the electric meter, probably when the heating began to warm up, turned it on, after a minute - again, after a while turned it on, everything was normal. To check, I launched another wash - everything is fine. Previously, this was not, I noticed that at the same time as the heating of the ten began, the refrigerator turned on. The machine is Hotpoint Ariston, an Indesit refrigerator, both of them have energy class A.

     
    Comments:

    # 5 wrote: Ravil | [quote]

     
     

    Sharova Tatyana, at the refrigerator, the inrush current is large, here you have the load.

     
    Comments:

    # 6 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    I have a similar situation with a boiler.

    Periodically turns off the machine, not immediately.

    Inspection of the machine showed that he had melted wires.

    Tell me, please, does this mean that the problem is in the machine itself?

     
    Comments:

    # 7 wrote: MaksimovM | [quote]

     
     

    Vladimir Alexandrovich, as I understand it, did you mean the fusion of conductors that are connected to the machine? In this case, the cause of melting can be a poor contact connection at the points where the conductors are connected to the circuit breaker. If the contact was normal, then it is possible that the cable (wire) section of this wiring line, which is connected to the machine, does not correspond to the load of household electrical appliances.

    The circuit breaker trips when overloaded or in the event of a short circuit. If there is no damage to this wiring line, including connected household appliances, then the matter is overload. If not only a boiler, but also other household electrical appliances is connected to this wiring line, then this may be the reason for the overload and tripping of the circuit breaker. Calculate the load on a given wiring line, and compare it with the permissible for this line, and also compare it with the rating of the machine.

    By the way, if the conductors are melted, then, accordingly, the circuit breaker can heat up. Exceeding the temperature leads to the fact that the bimetallic plate of the machine (the main structural element of the thermal release) will operate even if the load current is within the permissible values.

     
    Comments:

    # 8 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Good day.Підкажіть be-caress to whom spratsє automatic machine if it burns out є light bulb?
    Dyakuyu

     
    Comments:

    # 9 wrote: MaksimovM | [quote]

     
     

    Ivan, when the incandescent lamp burns out, a certain inrush occurs, which causes the electromagnetic release of the circuit breaker to trip and therefore it trips. In this case, it all depends on the rated current of the circuit breaker and the multiplicity of the trip current of the electromagnetic release. Typically, in apartment wiring, circuit breakers of characteristic “B” with a rated current of 16 A and below operate when the bulb burns out. At the same time, circuit breakers of the same class, rated 25, 32 or more amperes, do not work when the bulb burns out. I was convinced of this by personal experience.

    On the lighting line there is a 16 A circuit breaker, and on the input to the distribution panel - 32 A. Each time a bulb burns out, a 16 A circuit breaker is activated - that is, the one that is installed on the apartment lighting, the input (32 A) remains on.

    The fact that the circuit breaker is triggered by such short-term inrush currents indicates that it is operational and therefore you can be completely sure that in the event of a more serious damage in the wiring, it will shut off. It turns out this kind of check circuit breaker.

     
    Comments:

    # 10 wrote: Victor | [quote]

     
     

    The machine can work on thermal protection in the event of external heating or poor contact. This is seen in the darkened insulation near the contacts. Overloaded machines are clearly visible with a thermal imager.

     
    Comments:

    # 11 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello. Here is such a problem: at that moment when the washing machine (automatic machine) is working, the automatic machine of this group of sockets does not turn off, but the automatic machine switches to the refrigerator! At the same time, the machine continues to work normally. When the washer does not work, the machine on the refrigerator does not turn off.

     
    Comments:

    # 12 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello, I’ve got a problem - the machine works periodically (once a week, sometimes once a week, 2 times a week), which is responsible for electricity in the room, and it works when there is nobody in the house and there are no consumers of electricity in this room, what could be the problem?

     
    Comments:

    # 13 wrote: simply | [quote]

     
     

    And yet, in old machines, it was possible to determine the fact of operation without juggling i.e. by the position of the drive lever.

     
    Comments:

    # 14 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Michael is a human factor. It happens that all three machines "work".

    Sergey F. Heats up at the point of connection of the supply wire and jumpers to other machines. On old machines, they used an iron galvanized jumper - it rusts over time. Also connect the power cord to a more loaded machine, and the rest to the bus. 4mm aluminum is enough for the apartment.

     
    Comments:

    # 15 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello! Thank you for this site and the opportunity to ask a question.
    In my new apartment, a series of circuit breakers is installed in a standard plastic box with a transparent lid in the hallway. I recently discovered that the top of this automatic gearbox is always warm. Is this normal? Thanks for the answer.

     
    Comments:

    # 16 wrote: MaksimovM | [quote]

     
     

    Dmitriy, in the design of the circuit breaker there is such an element as a thermal release, which protects the wiring from overload. This element is a bimetallic plate, which, when the load current flows through it, heats up. That is, in normal mode, this element heats up and, accordingly, the case of the circuit breaker itself is heated. The level of heating depends on the magnitude of the load current, as well as the time it flows through a particular machine.

    In addition, the cause of the heating of the body of the electrical panel may be unreliable contact connections of conductors with circuit breakers or terminal blocks (cross-modules), through which branching of conductors in the panel.

    In any case, it is necessary to determine the reason for heating the shield body in order to avoid negative consequences in the future, since unreliable contact connections of conductors with terminal blocks or at points of connection to circuit breakers and other protective devices can lead to damage to these elements or fire. That is, it is necessary to inspect the contents of the distribution panel and, if there are malfunctions, eliminate them. While not forgetting about the necessary safety measures, in particular de-energizing the shield before carrying out any work in order to avoid electric shock.

     
    Comments:

    # 17 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello, I LOVE THE INTERNET AND HAVE NOT FIND AN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION! in switchboard install a separate machine on the washing machine during operation MACHINES - NOTHING WILL NOT TURN OFF AND TURN OFF WHEN TYPING A FEW DAYS NOT include, but again, those few days MAY ONE DAY - AND AUTO ON, MACHINE WORKS CAN BE WEEK - THE AUTOMATIC WORKS, AND MAY BE AND WITH ACCURACY A SET! IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE WHEN AND WHY IT TURNS OFF, WHAT CAN IT BE RELATED TO?

     
    Comments:

    # 18 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello. I turn the light bulb into the cartridge, turn on the light in the room. After that, all the lighting in the apartment turns off, but there is electricity. I go to the shield, turn on the machine, and it sparks and returns to its previous position. What does it mean?

     
    Comments:

    # 19 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello, tell me please, I have a sparkled wire at the rectifier when plugging it into a power outlet. And the light went out in the whole apartment. Turn off and turn on the machine - there is no light! What can be wrong?

     
    Comments:

    # 20 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello. Tell me where m. problem. At the input there is a 3-phase ABB S253 C40 circuit breaker, then an ABB F364 300mA RCD, then consumer groups connected via individual single-phase ABB S231R C16 circuit breakers. A day ago, I began to knock out the input 3-phase automatic machine. And not immediately - sometimes between switching on and knocking out an automatic machine takes 2-3 hours. At the same time, neither RCDs nor individual machines are knocked out. After the experiments, it was possible to determine the group, the shutdown of which stopped knocking out the machine. But I can not understand - why the input automaton knocks out, and not an individual or general RCD. An RCD with a 95% probability works - a month ago there were problems with the pump - it worked regularly. And where to look for problems - in the shield, on the line, in the group sockets? Visually, there are no melted wires anywhere. The second time the machine was knocked out, there was not a big smell of burning near the shield, since then the smell no longer appeared. Mb Is this situation a sign of a malfunction of the input or individual machines?

     
    Comments:

    # 21 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Hello, in our house (private house) an automatic machine is triggered, that is, the light turns off and the toggle switches on the counters turn off (go down). Yesterday, the light also turned off, but the toggle switch did not work, and remained in the upper position, turned off, turned on, the light turned on. Today is also history, the wiring is new. What is the reason why the toggle switch did not work?

     
    Comments:

    # 22 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Good afternoon!
    Problem .. In the outlet are connected: kettle, dishwasher, range hood and microwave.
    Without turning on these devices, the differential machine is knocked out! When you turn on the differential machine again, it knocks out again. Changed the machine, the month worked fine, then again the same situation. Who could be faced with a similar?

     
    Comments:

    # 23 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    Case study

    In the library, the reading room lighting is assembled on LB40 fluorescent lamps.

    Lamps are over 40 years old.

    Somehow, under one idle lamp, they put a table with a file cabinet. It was dark for the worker and they asked me to fix the lamp.

    I took off the protective glass and saw that both lamps had worked out - there were dark stripes near the end cartridges of both lamps.

    I replaced the lamp bulbs and both starters. Included. The lamp buzzed and both lamps lit.

    True, I did not like the strong buzz. But the librarian really liked it - it's light on the desktop.

    The library in the service room also had very droning lights. And every time I check whether the machines are warming in the shield. Checked - everything is cold.

    After about 3 hours in this service room, the workers smelled the smell of melting plastic - textolite.

    I checked all the switches and circuit breakers. Everything is cold. He turned off the light in the office and examined all the lights. I didn’t find the source.

    He said that the lights in this room were not turned on.

    The next morning they called me - a 3-pole circuit breaker disconnected in the shield.

    Arrived and I see the lights went out in the reading room and in the office.

    Turned on the machine - everywhere the light came on.

    Again I began to search for the source of smell of textolite. And again I did not find it.

    What to do?

    And I realized.

    Most often, malfunctions appear in those places where there were repair work.

    Opened yesterday's lamp. And he has a feature - on the one hand it holds a spring latch, and on the other hangs on such a flat hook.

    On a working lamp, I disconnected the latch and lowered the edge of the lamp to the top of the stepladder to get to the internal installation. The lamp began to hang on a hook.

    When I went down the steps, she moved to the side, the lamp jumped off the steps, swayed and ... fell so neatly on the table below him. Even the lamps did not crash.

    Power cable NYM pulled himself up and jumped out of his connector. The veins closed and the machine worked.

    Everyone is alive - well, thank God!

    He began to study installation and discovered:

    One of the chokes turned completely black (for 40 years), and my predecessor laid a cable on it NYM. The 3-layer cable insulation melted from the heated inductor and the phase conductor began to touch the grounded lamp housing. And the smell from the reading room under the suspended ceiling extended into the office - there was a window open.

    The entire installation removed and connected the left ends of the lamps to the phase, the right ends to neutral.

    I inserted LED lamps with a color temperature of 4000 K.

    Now the hall is quiet and quite light and ... safe.

    Conclusion: look for the malfunction first at the place of the last job.

     
    Comments:

    # 24 wrote: | [quote]

     
     

    How to find the reason if the RCD works at night every two weeks, a new apartment. From consumers only the refrigerator (serviceable).

     
    Comments:

    # 25 wrote: konst73 | [quote]

     
     

    Sergey F.,
    It was the same. He broke his head. The washing machine connected to the 16A automatic machine worked, and it knocked out the 25 A automatic machine, to which the refrigerator was connected. From the 40A input machine, the wire went to the 25A machine, from the 25A atomizer there was a jumper to the 16A machine. It turned out that there was bad contact at the place where the cable from the 40A machine goes into the 25A machine and the jumper goes to the 16A machine. In this case, poor contact was warmed, from that the machine was heated at 25 A and there the thermal protection worked, the refrigerator turned off, and the washing machine continued to work. Found by applying fingers to the 25A machine. The hottest place was near the contact. Then he took up the wire, and it is hot, also at the point of contact. At the same time, he extended all contacts several times, but the heating wire shifted to the side and did not clamp when he pulled it.

     
    Comments:

    # 26 wrote: Aleksanlr6767 | [quote]

     
     

    I have such a story; I have a private house; 6 kV cars are disconnected; I don’t know if I need to change or something else

     
    Comments:

    # 27 wrote: Alexander | [quote]

     
     

    Hello! Please help with advice, I beg you very much! The situation is this: I turn on the light, it takes 20 minutes and the automaton cuts out with a rather loud sound, you immediately cut it back and nothing, only after another 20 minutes about again, tired of it! GU 5.3 8W led lamps are changed, the machine also changed, the old one without visible damage, it doesn’t heat up, the machine 16a, sometimes cuts out the input too, it is 32a, the wires of the shades are not burned. Everything happened after the led driver conductor exploded and swelled, the luminaires simply had diode strips in addition to GU 5.3 in a circle and these led driver boxes, to exclude them, I dismantled them all and left only GU 5.3, cuts down anyway!